This is Australian True Crime with Michelle Lorry, and we have moved into a beautiful new studio.

We're also now on the IHeart app, and as part of this upgrade, you can watch us on YouTube.

In fact, next Monday you can watch a new episode with the Great Man, former homicide detective Charlie Bezina.

And there's a bit of trivia attached to this.

I met Charlie in this very studio many years ago when he agreed to be the very first guest on Australian True Crime.

We thought it'd be nice to relive that episode in celebration of how far we've come.

This is Australian True Crime.

We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created,

the Wurundri, Woi Wurang people of the Koolan Nation.

And a warning, this episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.

You've got to let the crime scene tell you the story.

I'd walk into a crime scene, you're in defence barrister mode.

Okay, let's look at it.

How can I connect the offender to this crime scene?

And the first thing you'd answer the question

would lead you to some motive, why would someone want to kill this particular person?

And a lot of times you start with the body and you work your way out. Bigger circles,

say the family are all persons of interest. You eliminate the family. Okay, there's social

circles, their work circles and the likes.

And invariably you might find, more often than not,

as someone is connected, the offender knows the deceased or the deceased knows the offender in some way.

You know, and the relationships we build with cease families,

...