Charles Murray: On Human Diversity
The Origins Podcast with Lawrence Krauss
Lawrence M. Krauss
4.4 • 592 Ratings
🗓️ 1 July 2022
⏱️ 139 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
After writing the book, The Bell Curve, Charles Murray became a controversial figure in the US Social Science scene, and was much maligned in the public arena. His work has been misinterpreted as being racist and sexist, and at Middlebury College students forcibly stopped his guest lecture and rioted.
As often the case with stereotypes, Murray is instead a thoughtful scholar who has tried to base his social science research on data from empirical science, something that should be standard, but isn’t.
I wanted to discuss his most recent book, Human Diversity, with him. It is far from controversial, and instead is a clear effort to explain often complex genetic concepts in a popular format. He makes it clear that he focuses on only well understood and well accepted concepts, and the discussion we had was instructive and enjoyable. He is a delightful and thoughtful individual and I believe that comes out in our dialogue.
I know from experience, as I indicated at the beginning of our discussion, that many people will condemn the discussion without listening to it, just as they condemn his writing without reading it. But if you take the time, I think you will be pleasantly surprised, as well as learning some new things about the world.
One of the purposes of The Origins Podcast is to connect science and culture, and Murray connects hard science with social science issues in a refreshingly honest and detailed way. Indeed, if all social scientists and policy makers took his approach, the overall tenor of popular discussion would improve, I believe. And while Murray and I do not share political views on a number of issues, thoughtful discussion is far preferred to blanket cancellation and denunciation or a refusal to even engage. Again, that, I hope, is a hallmark of the podcast. I hope you enjoy the discussion as much as I did.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hi, Lawrence Krause here. Before we begin our podcast, I wanted to let you know that the Origins Project Foundation has four or five seats left associated with our special trip to Iceland, September 21st to 25th, four nights, five days. |
| 0:24.7 | We'll tour the iconic vistas of the land of fire and ice, one of the most remarkable geographical |
| 0:29.8 | locations on Earth, and we'll also do several things that the public cannot normally go to, |
| 0:35.3 | including a visit to a special carbon capture facility there. |
| 0:39.5 | In addition, there'll be a public event with Barry and I and several local experts from Reckjavik. |
| 0:46.3 | All told, we hope it'll be a remarkable experience that will change your view of the world |
| 0:50.9 | and allow you to see one of, as I say, one of those remarkable places on earth. |
| 0:55.2 | I hope you'll consider joining us. Go to www.orgensproject.org and go to the travel page. |
| 1:03.1 | And in the next two weeks, we still have those seats open before we close things up. Thanks. |
| 1:08.7 | Charles Murray is a controversial figure and has been ever since he published the bell curve. |
| 1:13.6 | He's been castigated, hated, reviled, censured, censored, and more. |
| 1:20.6 | I wanted to have a discussion with Charles for a variety of reasons. |
| 1:25.6 | First, because I always worried that stereotypes of people are inaccurate, |
| 1:32.0 | and I like to hear people have a chance to discuss their own ideas themselves. But more interestingly, |
| 1:37.8 | I was taken by a new book by Charles Murray called Human Diversity, which sounds like it's going to be |
| 1:43.5 | an emotional book again. |
| 1:45.0 | But as he points out in the very beginning, if you're looking for bombshells, you won't find them. |
| 1:49.0 | It is instead a social scientist's take on the biological and scientific issues associated with human diversity in all its forms. |
| 1:58.0 | And it's based on reading the technical literature and discussing things with experts. |
| 2:05.9 | And his point, the whole purpose behind it is something I find very important. |
| 2:09.8 | He argues that social scientists often base their discussions on ideology or preferences |
| 2:15.6 | and don't refer to the scientific literature. And he thinks it's really important for public policy and social science |
... |
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