“The difference between confidence and arrogance is evidence. Boston gave me the ability to train like a 2:04 guy without it being irrational. That’s the greatest thing this race could have done for me.”

My guest for today’s episode is Charles Hicks: the 24-year-old Nike athlete, Stanford alum and former NCAA Cross Country Champion who just ran 2:04:35 at the 2026 Boston Marathon. That’s the second-fastest marathon ever run by an American and it’s only his second marathon. He did the entire build on simulated altitude — not a single breath of real mountain air outside of a layover in Denver — which may make him the fastest sea-level-trained marathoner in history.

Charles turned to the marathon two years ago, not at his own suggestion but at coach Jerry Schumacher’s. He ran 13:09 for 5K in his first year as a pro, looked too comfortable in his long runs, and Jerry pulled him aside and said: I think this is the event. What followed was a nine-month racing gap, the Cherry Blossom 10-miler that validated everything, a 2:09 New York debut without a watch where he negative-split the course, and then Boston.

In this conversation, Charles breaks down the full arc of how we got here — his COVID-era decision to just run 12 miles every single day in the Florida heat, his framework for thinking about volume as a decade-long project, the Nike prototype shoe, the famous heart rate mystery on Strava, and what it actually felt like to see 2:03 on the homestretch when he’d gone in thinking 2:06 would be a phenomenal day.

He also tells us whether the track door is shut, what he thinks about Chicago versus New York for this fall, and what the difference is between confidence and arrogance.

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Host: Chris Chavez | ⁠⁠@chris_j_chavez

Guest: Charles Hicks | @_charleshicks

Produced by: Jasmine Fehr | ⁠⁠⁠@jasminefehr

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