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Thinking LSAT

Champagne Prices. Beer Salaries. (Ep. 508)

Thinking LSAT

Nathan Fox and Ben Olson

Education

4.8868 Ratings

🗓️ 26 May 2025

⏱️ 67 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Ben and Nathan investigate income-debt ratios for average law students. Their findings paint a sobering picture for the average law school graduate. In many cases, students are paying champagne prices for beer salaries. Paying full price at even top schools can disrupt personal financial stability for a decade or longer. 

Then, they review the newly released 2025/2026 LSAT schedule, flag another price increase, and take on two flawed pieces of LSAT advice in a double round of Pearls vs. Turds. The guys help one listener struggling with timed sections and a reapplicant focusing on the wrong priorities in their résumé. JoJo the PoPo takes their shot at the Personal Statement Gong Show, and “normative” is the word of the week.

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0:30 – Champagne Prices. Beer Salaries.

Ben and Nathan highlight how poorly students understand the long-term impact of taking on massive student loans. The federal government considers the average law grad to be in financial hardship, and income-to-debt ratios back that up. Graduates from top schools like Yale typically spend about 10% of their gross monthly income on loan payments, while some graduates spend over 50%. To make matters worse, top students who secure scholarships and consequently have little to no debt often land the best jobs, while those borrowing median debt levels earn significantly less. Scoring high on the LSAT and attending law school for free remains the safest path.

Check your school's median debt and income levels at Lawhub.com

27:10 – 2025/2026 LSAT Schedule Released

The LSAT schedule for 2025/2026 shows no significant changes, but the official test cost increased again. Ben and Nathan encourage students not to waste money and wait until their practice test scores show they’re ready before signing up.

28:55 – Pearls vs. Turds Double Header

This episode’s Pearls vs. Turds features two submissions. First: “Avoid the obvious answer.” Verdict: turd. If the answer does what the question is asking, it’s correct. If it feels easy, it’s because the LSAT is genuinely easy. Second: “If the passage doesn’t include the word ‘should,’ avoid answer choices that do.” Verdict: also a turd. While it hints at something valid—normative conclusions need support—rigid rules like this replace real understanding with memorization and lead to errors.

37:20 – Not Improving on Timed Sections

Dexter reports that although his untimed drilling has improved, his timed section scores remain flat. Ben and Nathan recommend treating timed sections the same way as drilling. Rather than rushing to finish, focus on solving each problem completely and accurately.

42:15 – Law School Résumé

AP is applying again after improving their LSAT score and wants feedback on résumé content. Ben and Nathan advise that résumés and soft skills are secondary when the LSAT score isn’t competitive. Application materials like the résumé can stay largely the same, but they must be polished and error-free.

48:29 – Personal Statement Gong Show

JoJo the PoPo enters the ring as the latest Personal Statement Gong Show contestant. Ben and Nathan read their personal statement and hit the gong when something goes wrong. The standing record to beat is ten lines, held by Greta.

1:18:54 - Word of the Week - Normative

“Sciences, however, are by definition non-normative: they describe but they do not prescribe.”

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Even now, just rehashing these numbers, this seems criminal.

0:05.0

They've continued to get worse and worse.

0:07.2

Be illegal.

0:15.6

Hello and welcome to episode 500 of the Freezing Elsaat podcast.

0:19.8

Nathan Vox with me is Ben Wilson. We're the co-founders of ElsatDemon.com andin Elsaid podcast. Nathan Fox with me is Ben Wilson.

0:21.8

We're the co-founders of ElsatDemon.com and the Elsat Demon Daily podcast.

0:26.9

First item on our agenda today, Ben, is about the impact of debt.

0:34.6

So, Ben, a few weeks ago, you mentioned the idea that applicants are particularly bad at

0:39.3

understanding just how much six figures of student loans actually is. We believe that this is

0:46.6

intentional on the part of schools. They do a good job of trying to hide it from you.

0:51.9

Demon team member David did some research to illustrate the reality of

0:55.0

living with student loans. He pulled data from law hub's debt to income ratio for each school.

1:00.6

Then he converted the median salaries into monthly pay to compare with median monthly loan payments

1:07.1

based on the median amount borrowed. David added, quote, one thing I wanted to flag,

1:14.0

I made the income calculations based on a 10-year standard repayment plan. Many people will

1:18.7

repay on longer like 25-year plans or the repayee program. That's an acronym, I guess,

1:26.8

R-E-P-A-Y-E. That might be like income-based repayment.

1:33.7

But David says, if you can't make the payments on the standard payment program, you should rethink

1:38.6

whether the debt is worth it. The Law Hub calculator notes, quote, the federal government does,

1:43.7

however, provide hardship

1:44.7

programs to lessen the burden of monthly student loan obligations for those in financial

1:48.5

hardship. The graduate at every ABA approved law school who makes the median earnings with the

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