Hello and welcome to the latest podcast from the Centre for European Reform.

I'm Ian Bond, the CEO's Deputy Director.

And once again, we're going to be talking about Russia's War of Aggression against Ukraine and the prospects for ending it.

We're recording this just after Donald Trump announced that he was going to meet Vladimir Putin in Budapest.

And on the day that Trump is meeting Volodymyr Zelensky in the White House again,

so a lot may happen between now and when you listen to this podcast. But what we're

going to try and do today is to take a step back and look at Russian negotiating tactics, Ukraine's

negotiating objectives, and how Ukraine and its allies can get the best outcome if and when

Putin decides to negotiate seriously.

And I'm delighted to be joined today by Yulia Osmalovska,

the head of the Kiev office of the think tank Globsenk,

and a former Ukrainian diplomat who, among other things,

studied the psychology and mediation of negotiations at St. Petersburg State University

before Russia's annexation of Crimea, and Don Jensen of Johns Hopkins University in the United States,

a former US diplomat who provided technical support for the START, INF and SDI negotiations with the Soviet Union.

And they're the co-authors of a forthcoming paper for the Atlantic Council on negotiating with Putin.

So it's great to have you both on the podcast.

Well, thank you.

Thank you very much, Jan.

So I thought I'd start with a question to both of you, which is, what have you learnt

through your careers about the Russian approach to negotiating?

And, Yulio, perhaps I can start with you.

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