From the Centre for European Reform, this is the CER podcast.

It is a critical moment.

If we do not act with urgency, we would then severely undermine the liberal order.

Brexit means Brexit, and we're going to make a success of it.

The wind is back in Europe's sights.

We have now a window of opportunity, but it will not stay open for ever.

Welcome to the latest podcast from the Centre for European Reform.

I'm Ian Bond. I'm the

foreign policy director at the CER and I'm here today with Luigi Scatsieri, our research fellow

who has written an interesting piece for the latest CER bulletin on the strains in the transatlantic relationship at the moment.

Perhaps I could start Luigi by asking you a bit about how you see the position.

I mean, to me it looked as though transatlantic relations were in a pretty poor situation even before

the coronavirus pandemic.

We had a trade war.

We had Trump's frequent attacks on his European allies for their failure to spend enough

on defence.

We had big differences of opinion between the US and the Europeans over the Middle East peace process

and other foreign policy issues such as Syria. And so we were starting from a pretty low base,

weren't we? But what effects do you think we have seen from

the pandemic on the state of the relationship? Well, thank you, Ian. I think there's two distinct

phenomena here at play. On the one hand, the pandemic is creating new tensions, and on the other hand,

this exacerbating old ones so in in terms of new

...