From the Center for European Reform, this is the CIA podcast.

Poson us seriously the question of the

future that we want, and we all

all together, the courage to it construct.

For us in Germany, is the

Bekenness to the European Europe,

a part of our state's resolve.

A strong united Europe is a necessity for the world,

because an integrated Europe remains vital to our

international order. This is the moment for Europe world because integrated Europe remains vital to our international order.

This is the moment for Europe to lead the way towards a new vitality.

Hello and welcome to the CR podcast. I'm Sondon-Turdwar, Senior Research Fellow at the Center for European Reform.

And today I'm joined by our deputy director, John Springford and Brad Setzer, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, to talk about industrial policy and derisking from China.

Brad worked for the Biden administration and is a leading expert in D.C. on international trade, capital

flows and macroeconomic policy. So welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much. That's a great

pleasure. Thanks. Thanks for being here. Just as a way of introduction, Biden's Inflation

Reduction Act, Chinese support for Putin's full-scale invasion of Ukraine have put derisking, especially from China,

as well as green tech industrial policy at the forefront of many policymakers' minds on both sides of the Atlantic.

If you look at solar panels, lithium batteries for electric cars and rare earth materials that

are key input to many green techs, there's a lot of dependence on China and that's leading

to policy changes.

It also seems as though the US and China have become less friendly to open markets and

...