From the Center for European Reform, this is the CEO podcast.

Poson us seriously the question of the

future that we want, and we all

all together, the courage to it

for us in Germany is the

Bekindness to the European Europe

part of our state's resolve.

A strong united Europe is a necessity for the world

because an integrated Europe remains vital to

our international order. This is the moment for Europe world because integrated Europe remains vital to our international order.

This is the moment for Europe to lead the way towards a new vitality.

Welcome to a new episode of the CER's podcast, today in collaboration with the Open Society European Policy Institute.

I'm Camino Mertra Martinez, your resident Spaniard and

CR's migration nerds. Today we're going to take a look at the European Commission's

much awaited new migration pacts. There's been a lot of hot takes out there, including mine.

I've been tweeting like a mad woman for the past three days. So I am very lucky to be chatting to one of the most knowledgeable, level-headed exports I know in town.

And that's Julia Lagana. Julia is a senior analyst on migration policies at the Open Society European Policy

Institute here in Brussels and a fellow pandemic mom, as she likes to say.

Hello, Julia.

Hi.

Julia, I know that in an attempt to escape the never-ending migration policy debate here,

you're now delving into farming, which I believe is not quite literally, I should think,

...