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U.S. Supreme Court Oral Arguments

Catholic Charities Bureau, Inc. v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission

U.S. Supreme Court Oral Arguments

Oyez

National, Government & Organizations

4.6640 Ratings

🗓️ 31 March 2025

⏱️ 99 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

A case in which the Court will decide whether a state violates the First Amendment’s religion clauses by denying a religious organization an otherwise-available tax exemption because the organization does not meet the state’s criteria for religious behavior.

Transcript

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0:00.0

We will hear argument first this morning in case 24-154 Catholic Charities Bureau versus the Wisconsin Labor and Industry Review Commission.

0:09.5

Mr. Rossbach.

0:12.4

Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court, this case is not complicated.

0:17.1

The Wisconsin Supreme Court got it wrong when it interpreted a state law religious exemption

0:21.4

to favor what it called typical religious activity and when it held that helping the poor

0:27.0

can't be religious because secular people help the poor too. To resolve this case, this court need

0:33.1

do nothing more than say that the Constitution doesn't allow courts to do that. That conclusion

0:38.7

breaks no new doctrinal ground, and most courts have no difficulty applying religious

0:44.0

exemptions constitutionally. The problem here is that Wisconsin draws distinctions along theological

0:49.6

lines, something that this court has repeatedly forbidden. Wisconsin compares its rule to the ministerial exception, but Wisconsin's rule would be

0:57.1

equally unconstitutional in the ministerial exception context.

1:00.8

No court would hold that clergy who preach on Saturday are not ministers because preaching

1:05.0

on Sunday is more typical.

1:07.2

Nor would any court hold that a religious leader who helps the poor isn't a minister because secular leaders help the poor too.

1:14.1

By that measure, Mother Teresa might not qualify.

1:16.9

In short, there is nothing wrong with the statutory text here or with how most legislatures and courts deal with religious accommodations.

1:24.9

The problem is how the Wisconsin Supreme Court applied the religious

1:28.8

purposes exemption. I welcome the Court's questions.

1:32.4

Can the State impose any limits on exemptions for religious organizations?

1:40.7

Absolutely, Your Honor. We're asking only here that they not be discriminated along theological lines.

1:48.0

So we're not saying that, you know, if you have a religious motivation, you get a religious

1:53.8

exemption no matter what the issue is.

...

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