Our episodes deal with serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel at any time you need support, please contact your local crisis centre.

For suggested phone numbers for confidential support and for a more detailed list of content warnings,

please see the show notes for this episode on your app or on our website.

Today's episode involves crimes against children and won't be suitable for all listeners.

The police listened on as Craig Fulbig expressed his belief that maybe he had killed their four children.

Kathleen asked why he would think such a thing. Craig told her to think

about it. Every time they'd had a child, it had driven a wedge between them, and the best way he could

get Kathleen's attention was to get rid of the kids. He presented a scenario in which he waited

until Kathleen went to sleep in the middle of the night

and then got up to kill the children.

With Laura, he waited until Kathleen went outside and then sneaked in through the front door

without her ever knowing he was there.

Who had anything to gain out of them not being around?

Craig asked, before answering,

me.

Kathleen told Craig that he was being ridiculous.

Craig clarified that he was suggesting a hypothetical,

but that such a case against him was just as feasible as the one the police were building against Kathleen.

Referring to Detective Bernie Ryan, Craig said,

All I'm trying to show you is the futility of the bullshit he's going on.

Kathleen said she was scared and told Craig never to mention such a thing again.

It's bad enough Detective Ryan is going for one of us, she said. I'm not having him going after you.

...