Can the West Hold Together? Lessons from WWII with Tim Bouverie and Michael Gove (Part Two)

Intelligence Squared

Arts, News, Society & Culture, News Commentary

4.2 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 14 October 2025

⏱️ 38 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

‘There is only one thing worse than fighting with allies, and that is fighting without them.’ – Winston Churchill In a world where geopolitical alliances are fraying and tensions are rising, what can the fragile coalition that defeated Hitler teach us about the challenges facing the West today? In September 2025 historian Tim Bouverie came to the Intelligence Squared stage to discuss his Sunday Times bestselling book Allies at War: The Politics of Defeating Hitler. In conversation with Editor of The Spectator Michael Gove, Bouverie described how Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin overcame deep ideological differences and strategic rivalries to form a fragile but ultimately victorious alliance against Nazi Germany. Now, with Donald Trump threatening to abandon NATO, Vladimir Putin intent on exploiting Western fissures, and democratic nations questioning their own cohesion, the lessons of WWII’s Grand Alliance have never felt more relevant. --- If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Everybody. Hi.
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0:30.6	Welcome to Intelligence Squared, where great minds meet.
0:34.8	I'm producer Mia Serente.
0:37.4	For this episode, we're rejoining for part two of our recent live event, with historian Tim
0:42.3	Bouverie and Michael Gove.
0:44.3	In September, Bouverie and Gove came to the Intelligence Squared stage to discuss the state
0:49.3	of the West today and the lessons we can take from World War II.
0:53.3	They discussed Bouvry's new book, Allies at War, the Politics of Defeating Hitler,
0:58.7	exploring how Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin all overcame ideological differences and strategic
1:04.4	rivalries to form a fragile but ultimately victorious alliance against Nazi Germany.
1:10.7	If you haven't heard part one, we recommend jumping back an episode and getting up to speed.
1:15.3	And if you'd like to listen to this episode in full and ad-free,
1:18.7	why not become an Intelligence Squared member at Intelligensquired.com
1:23.0	or tap the IQ2 extra button on Apple.
1:26.5	Let's rejoin the conversation now, live at Smith Square Hall in London.
	...

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