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Hello and welcome to Coffee How Shots, the spectators' daily politics podcast.

I'm Max Jeffrey and I'm joined by Katie Boes and James Forsyth.

Two Brits yesterday were sentenced to death for fighting Russian forces in Ukraine.

James, can you tell us about it?

So, I think the first thing to say is that these people who are not people who just

gone out there to fight in the war, these are one as a dual national, one as a Ukrainian

wife and moved to a country a few years ago. So, I always at the next thing to say is they've

been tried not in Russia but in one of these self-declared breakaway republics and clearly this

does not conform with international law or the like. I suspect what the motivation is is to use

them as bartering tools. There is a particular pro Putin figure who is in Ukrainian custody at the

moment and I think the Russians are very keen to get that person released and so I think they

will try and use these people as bartering chips. I think the one thing that is essential is

that their detention should not change UK policy. Katie, what is the government's response to this

being so far? So, you've had the Foreign Secretary Liz Truss command say the trial is a sham

judgment with absolutely no legitimacy and I think what's interesting here is we haven't seen

so much of this playing out publicly because I think the stance the UK government has taken it

which is more public attention could actually be problematic in the sense that if Russia have

intentions which they appear to do to use this as you know bartering technique to try and pressurise

it could just encourage them to do so further and that's why I think they've been trying to keep

...