Hello, I'm Hugo Rifkin, and now we're going to be unpacking the politics of the day

and the stuff that's even more important than politics too. And joining me are two of the smartest cookies

from The Times and the Sunday Times, crunchy on the inside, but oh, so soft in the middle. And they are Libby Purvis.

Hello, Libby. Good morning. Good morning. Good to have you on.

And James Marriott. Hello, James. Good morning. How are you? Yeah, good. And please do that description of

me and Libby. Yeah, as a cookie. I like that. Favorite cookie? I mean, cookies are a bit American,

aren't me? I think I'm more of a biscuit person. Well, your cookies are sort of bigger. I think you can distinguish between a cookie and a biscuit in Britain. No?

Yeah, I accept the distinction. Boringly digestive. I think someone's got to stick up for the old

favourites, haven't they? Yeah, I mean, Libby, we've been working together for many years, and I can't believe I haven't asked you the question on the radio yet. What's your favourite biscuit? But what's your favourite biscuit?

Probably a chocolate finger. Very good. Good choice. I quite like a bourbon, but I also like a hobnob.

Let's move on. Libby, we're going to start with your column this week. It questions whether our courts are too susceptible to emotion and whether the heart-rending stories we often hear from

victims can obstruct the cold, hard facts of the case.

Talk us through it.

Well, I suppose it begins with the old hard cases make bad law thing.

In the case of Lucy Letby, which I started off with, it's very troubling that this campaign is so strong and has input from another quite eminent

neonatologist and several doctors saying she's totally innocent, you know, all the evidence

was wrong.

What I was trying to write about was how unhelpful it always is to the cause of cool and balanced

justice.

When you have an enormous emotional storm building around a case,

especially when it's a case which involves a jury getting loaded with information

from very, very experts, specialists and technicians.

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