Can the rules keep up?: Lawsuits, LLMs and the looming oil recession
Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast
Persephonica
4.7 • 1.1K Ratings
🗓️ 21 May 2026
⏱️ 47 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
An unprecedented government move to outrun the courts. A country racing to write AI into its constitution. And a global energy crisis that's already moved faster than any possible fix. Are our institutions and the rules they rest on still fit for the world they're supposed to protect?
This week, Tom Rivett-Carnac, Christiana Figueres, and Paul Dickinson look at three stories the headlines may be missing.
In New Zealand, the government has moved to retroactively kill a landmark climate lawsuit - before it even reaches trial. Tom shares a voice note from ClientEarth CEO Laura Clarke who gives us the inside scoop on what is actually at stake. If this works, where does it end?
Then Greece, which wants to write a legally binding obligation for human-centred AI into its constitution. But can a national document meaningfully govern a borderless technology? And as we increasingly rely on AI for our information, where do these large language models actually go for their climate science?
Finally, the Strait of Hormuz. Financial markets think the situation is priced in. Geopolitical analysts disagree. We ask which sectors might unexpectedly accelerate the energy transition, why the climate movement seems frozen at exactly the moment it should be loudest, and whether this decade's decisive window is already starting to close.
Learn More:
⚖️ Learn more about ClientEarth and its work
🌿 Read about New Zealand amending its climate law via Inside Climate News
🌐 Catch up on the ICJ case on climate obligations of states
🏛️ Discover more about Greece's constitutional AI proposal via the Washington Post
🛢️ Dive into the Strait of Hormuz disruptions with analysis from UNCTAD
🎤 Leave us your voice notes and questions for upcoming episodes on SpeakPipe
Join the conversation:
Instagram @outrageoptimism LinkedIn @outrageoptimism
Or get in touch with us via this form.
Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks
Edited by: Miles Martignoni
Planning: Caitlin Hanrahan
Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford
This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to outrage and optimism. I'm Tom Rivakarnik. |
| 0:04.6 | I'm Christiana Figueres. |
| 0:05.8 | And I'm Paul Dickinson. |
| 0:06.8 | This week we bring you three stories about what happens when the rules can't keep pace. |
| 0:10.9 | A government rewrites the law to outrun the courts, a country races to get AI into its constitution, |
| 0:16.3 | and an energy crisis rushes on ahead of any possible things. |
| 0:19.7 | Thanks for being here. |
| 0:22.0 | Wait, Tom, did you say we're going to do three stories today? |
| 0:25.9 | I was just reading what's here at the top of the page. |
| 0:28.1 | Just want you to know, and listeners, that that is really ambitious, but we will try. |
| 0:32.3 | We can do it. We're going to try. We can do it. You know, I genuinely thought you were pulling me up to make a correction there, Christiana. |
| 0:39.2 | Okay, this is like lifting the veil on what really goes on. How Cristiana controls us. But I have to warn you, Homer Simpson said, trying, you know, we're trying for this. Trying is the first road on a step to failure. That's what Homer Simpson taught me, sir. But we'll have a go. Wait, well, trying is the first step on the way to failure. |
| 0:55.1 | On the road to failure. |
| 0:55.9 | It is technically half. |
| 0:57.4 | No, wait. Simpson taught me, sir, but we'll have a go. Wait, well, trying is the first step on the way to failure. On the roads of failure. It is technically half. No way. The name of this podcast is outrage and optimism. I would say, trying is the first step on the way to success. How about that? Much better. I'm not a follower of Homer's. I'm not a follower of Homer homes. Okay, can we actually get to the three stories, please? |
| 1:12.7 | Right. |
| 1:13.2 | So the first thing we're going to do is talk about New Zealand, which has, and this is a real source of outrage, has killed a climate lawsuit mid-trial. And we're going to ask if this is a one-off or if this is a sign of things to come. and actually my good friend Laura Clark, who runs Client Earth, |
| 1:27.0 | which I'm very proud to sit on the board, |
| 1:28.6 | sent me a voice note about how consequential this is when I things to come. And actually, my good friend Laura Clark, who runs Client Earth, of which I'm very |
| 1:27.5 | proud to sit on the board, sent me a voice note about how consequential this is when I was going back and forth with her about what we might cover this week. So actually, it's so good that she said, even though it was a personal note, that we could put it on the podcast. So I wonder if we should just play that to help us set up what this is. Hear from Laura herself. These amendments would be hugely damaging to climate action in New Zealand. |
| 1:49.0 | They would shield big polluters from the damage done to the environment and the climate. |
| 1:53.8 | They would undermine the constitutional role that the courts have to interpret laws set by Parliament. |
... |
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