Welcome to Off Message. I'm Isaac Dober. Today's guest, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper.

We sat down with him at the governor's mansion in Raleigh, the first floor in a room that had been built actually as a bedroom for Franklin Roosevelt when he came to stay there.

But what we talked about was gerrymandering and a new project that he is launching called Break the Majority to try to fight district by district gerrymandering in the state, which has really defined what the maps look like for state legislative seats and congressional seats.

We talked about what the future of the Democratic Party looks like from his perspective as the only candidate for governor or senator who's a Democrat who won in a state that Donald Trump won in last year.

I get into all of this in an article that's up on our website. You can read it, politico.com.

Remember to subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts. Follow me on Twitter and Facebook at Isaac Dover. And email me your thoughts and

suggestions about upcoming guests, people that you'd want to hear. Coming up, great guests,

including former Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, Alaska Governor Bill Walker, who's the only

independent governor elected anywhere around the country right now, and comedian Mazra Brani.

And now my conversation with Roy Cooper.

Tell me about Phil Ford.

Phil Ford was a great all-American national player of the year. Got hurt in the pros, but was a great

pro until he got hurt.

He played for the rival high school basketball team in Nash County, North Carolina.

I went to the country public high school, and he was the city public high school.

And my claim to fame is not being governor of North Carolina.

It is one Friday night in the Rocky Mount North Carolina high school gym. I, Roy Cooper, blocked Phil Ford. And what position did you play? I was a swing forward shooting

guard. Phil was a point guard. Phil got 52 points that night, but by God, he did not get 54. This is at the best moment of your life.

I really enjoyed it, and what was great is that Phil helped me during my campaign for

governor and got out there and campaigned with me. And finally, publicly admitted this,

which I'm grateful for.

So you were telling the story for years and nobody believed you that you wanted.

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