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confidence. Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots, the Spectator's Daily Politics podcast. I'm Cindy You and I'm joined by James Forsyth and Katie Borts.

So yesterday we had the horrific news that 27 migrants have passed away in the channel on their way across.

Now James, this of course is a gruesome reminder of the dangers of crossing the channel in the way that many people are doing,

but the government doesn't seem to have any clearer idea yet of what to do.

Is this an impetus for more action?

Yeah, I think this is a reminder of the kind of appalling human suffering that is coming from this problem,

but there are no easy solutions to this problem.

And I think this is one of the difficulties because the first thing to say is when you look at the wreckage from this vessel,

you realize just how immoral the people running these people smuggling operations are,

but they are in November, in the dark,

putting people in a kind of dingy that you might float down a calm river

where you could easily swim to the bank,

not try and cross one of the world's busiest shipping lanes.

I think the problem is how do you solve this problem within the confines

of international law and all the conventions that the UK signed up to? I think it's very difficult

to see how you do that. And I think the other problem that you've got, you know, is the, the emphasis

from Boris Johnson and Pridipater is, you know, the French must do more. And yes, the French

could do more. But I think that you are always going to have a problem, which is the number of asylum

people claiming asylum in the UK, yes, it's at a UK recent high, but it's not as high as it is in some other European countries.

And you've also got a problem, which is there are more and more people on the move because of events in the Hall of Africa.

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