Can President Trump unilaterally lay off 1,400 Department of Education employees?

We the People

National Constitution Center

History, News Commentary, News

4.6 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 17 July 2025

⏱️ 58 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In this episode, Derek Black of the University of South Carolina School of Law and Neal McCluskey of the Cato Institute join to discuss this recent emergency docket decision and explore the history of federal involvement in education. Resources  McMahon v. New York (2025) Scott Harris with Derek Black, “Trump’s Targeting of Education Department Could Eliminate Dozens of Federal Programs for Millions of Students Nationwide,” Counterpoint (Feb. 10, 2025) Derek Black, “Dangerous Learning: The South’s Long War on Black Literacy,” (2025) Neal McCluskey, “Right Supreme Court Call on Downsizing the US Department of Education,” Cato at Liberty (July 14, 2025) Neal McCluskey, Feds in the Classroom: How Big Government Corrupts, Cripples, and Compromises American Education, (2007) Stay Connected and Learn More Questions or comments about the show? Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Continue the conversation by following us on social media @ConstitutionCtr. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate. Follow, rate, and review wherever you listen. Join us for an upcoming ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠live program⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or watch recordings on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Support our important work. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Donate

Transcript

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0:00.0	On July 14th, 2025, the Supreme Court delivered its decision in McMahon v. New York.
0:09.6	Hello, friends. I'm Jeffrey Rosen, President and CEO of the National Constitution Center,
0:14.7	and welcome to We the People, a weekly show of constitutional debate. The National Constitution
0:19.4	Center is a nonpartisan nonprofit,
0:21.6	chartered by Congress, to increase awareness and understanding of the Constitution among the American people.
0:27.6	This week we'll unpack the Supreme Court's recent emergency docket decision in McMahon v. New York,
0:33.6	which paved the way for the Trump administration to proceed with large-scale workforce reductions at the Department of Education.
0:40.3	To help us explore the case, we have two of America's leading commentators on education and the law.
0:47.3	Derek Black is Professor of Law and the Ernest F. Hollings Chair in Constitutional Law at the University of South Carolina Law School.
0:55.4	He also directs the law school's Constitutional Law Center and is the author of a leading
0:59.6	education law casebook, education law, equality, fairness, and reform. Derek, it's wonderful
1:05.4	to welcome you to We the People. Yeah, thanks for having me on. And Neil McCluskey is the
1:10.2	director of the Cato Institute Center for Educational Freedom.
1:13.5	He's the author of the book The Fractured Schoolhouse, Reexamining Education for a free, equal, and harmonious society.
1:21.0	Neil, it's wonderful to welcome you to We the People.
1:23.4	Oh, it's great to be with you. Thanks.
1:25.6	Well, let's begin with the Supreme Court's order. The majority opinion was unsigned.
1:30.8	We do have a dissenting opinion from Justice Sotomayor, joined by Justice's Jackson and Kagan.
1:37.5	So perhaps we'll begin with that. Derek, the dissenters talked about the fact that the order might violate the take care clause and the
1:46.3	Administrative Procedure Act, and that it was titled an effort to eliminate the Education
1:51.1	Department, which only Congress can do. Tell us more about Justice Sotomayor's arguments in
1:55.9	the dissent. Yeah, I mean, there's a sort of generalized obligation in the Constitution, of course,
	...

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