Can President Trump Fire a Federal Trade Commissioner Without Cause?

We the People

National Constitution Center

History, News Commentary, News

4.6 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 11 December 2025

⏱️ 67 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In this episode, Thomas Berry of the Cato Institute and Jed Shugerman of the Boston University School of Law join the recap the oral arguments from Trump v. Slaughter and debate whether the statutory removal protections for members of the Federal Trade Commission violate the separation of powers. Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution Center, moderates. Resources Thomas Berry, Brief of the Cato Institute as Amicus Curiae in Support of Petitioners (10/17/2025) Jed Shugerman, Brief Amicus Curiae of Professor Jed Handelsman Shugerman in Support of Respondents (11/14/2025) Jed Shugerman, “The Indecisions of 1789: Inconstant Originalism and Strategic Ambiguity” (2023) Jane Manners and Lev Menand, “The Three Permissions: Presidential Removal and the Statutory Limits of Agency Independence” (2021) Marbury v. Madison (1803) Myers v. United States (1926) Humphrey’s Executor v. United States (1935) Morrison v. Olson (1988) Seila Law LLC v. CFPB (2020) Stay Connected and Learn More Questions or comments about the show? Email us at ⁠[email protected]⁠ Continue the conversation by following us on social media @ConstitutionCtr Explore the ⁠America at 250 Civic Toolkit⁠ Explore ⁠Pursuit: The Founders’ Guide to Happiness⁠ ⁠Sign up⁠ to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate Follow, rate, and review wherever you listen Join us for an upcoming ⁠live program⁠ or watch recordings on ⁠YouTube⁠ Support our important work: ⁠⁠⁠Donate

Transcript

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0:00.0	On December 8th, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Trump v. Slaughter, a case about whether the president can fire the heads of independent agencies without cons.
0:12.7	Hello, friends. I'm Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution Center, and welcome to We the People, a weekly show of constitutional debate.
0:21.6	The National Constitution Center is a nonpartisan nonprofit,
0:24.8	chartered by Congress to increase awareness and understanding of the Constitution
0:28.7	among the American people.
0:30.7	In this episode, we'll recap the oral arguments from Trump v. Slaughter and debate
0:35.4	whether statutory removal protections for members of the Federal
0:38.9	Trade Commission violate the Constitution. To help us explore these topics, we have two of the
0:44.4	leading scholars of executive power and of the original understanding of the removal power.
0:51.3	Thomas Berry is the director of the Cato Institute's Robert A. Levy Center for
0:55.5	Constitutional Studies, an editor-in-chief of the Cato Supreme Court Review. Before joining Cato,
1:01.2	he was an attorney at the Pacific Legal Foundation. Tom, it is wonderful to welcome you back to
1:06.0	We the People. Great to be back. Thank you for having me. And Judge Sugarman is a professor Joseph Lipset scholar and Henry Elwood Warren Scholar at Boston University School of Law.
1:17.2	He's the author of several Law Review articles about the original public meaning of Article 2
1:21.4	and is currently working on two books about the history of executive power and prosecution in America. Jed, it is wonderful to
1:29.7	welcome you back to We the People. Thanks so much for having me, too. Well, let's begin with the
1:35.5	topic that you're both the world experts on and was central to the oral argument and to the case,
1:42.1	namely the original public meaning of Article 2 and the nature of the
1:48.0	removal power. Tom, in your brief, you argue that at the so-called decision of 1789, the founders
1:57.6	decided to vest all executive power in the president and to allow him to fire anyone he appoints.
2:04.4	Tell us more about your views about the original understanding of Article 2.
2:09.9	Sure. So I think to understand Article 2 and the removal question, you have to also understand the Appointments Clause.
	...

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