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at Drax.com. Hello and welcome to Coffee How Shots, the spectator's daily politics podcast.

I'm Max Jeffrey and I'm joined by Isabel Harman and James Hill. It was the last day of

Labour Conference today. Isabel, how did it go? Well, it can be a bit of a graveyard shift because

Labour leaders tend to give their speech sort of in the middle of conference. It was something

Tony Blair introduced so that he could go back to London and sort of say, you know, I'm busy

being in government. And Keir's done support it back and sometimes you can get a very quiet Wednesday.

But actually the choice today was to have the two public services that Labour wants to talk

about the most. So education and the NHS and two broken speeches from Bridget Phillipsson

and we're streeting. I think it's interesting because both to a certain extent are being limited

by the very tight restrictions that Rachel Reed is putting on spending. So if you listen to

Bridget Phillipsson, you know, she talked a lot about the things that weren't working within

the system, but she wasn't able to promise full-scale reform or, for instance, sort of not

that Labour ever promised this universal free childcare. That was never promised by Labour,

but I think some people had been hoping that it would be. And so I wouldn't say her approach is

more incremental, but she's not exactly saying, you know, welcome to the land of milk and honey

in early years in education. So I thought that was interesting. I thought it was striking that she

also wanted to talk about maths and about how this country had a problem with maths, but that her

solution was at the other end of the education journey. So in primary rather than mandating

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