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Hello and welcome to Decoder. I'm Neil Appetel, Editor and Chief of the Verge and Decoder

is my show about big ideas. Other problems. Today I'm talking to Volkswagen Group CEO,

Dr. Herbert Deese. Now, Volkswagen Group is a huge company. If you're in the United States

in my net, know it because Volkswagen is one of the two biggest car makers in the world.

It's a battle every year between VW and Toyota for the top spot. They both sell around

10 million cars a year. To put that in perspective, Ford sells around 4 to 6 million cars a year

and in 2021, Tesla sold just over 900,000 cars. So yeah, Volkswagen Group is big.

It's also complicated. Herbert oversees a huge range of familiar car brands. There's VW,

of course, but also Audi, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bentley, Escoda and seat in Europe. They

own the Ducati motorcycle company. A recent management shuffle also put him directly in

charge of Volkswagen's software subsidiary, which is called Cariad. And of course, he's

...