Can a member of the military disobey an 'illegal' order?

Here & Now Anytime

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4.1 • 953 Ratings

🗓️ 25 November 2025

⏱️ 21 minutes

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Summary

The Pentagon is investigating former Navy officer and current Arizona Sen. Mark Kelly for calling for troops to disobey "illegal orders." Former Air Force Deputy Judge Advocate General Steve Lepper joins us to break down the complicated military justice system. Then, where might the U.S. pressure campaign on Venezuela lead? We talk with Michael Shifter, former president of the Inter-American Dialogue and an adjunct professor at Georgetown University's Center for Latin American Studies. And, two Senate Democrats want to know why a White House official intervened in a federal investigation on behalf of pro-Trump influencer Andrew Tate and his brother, who are accused of sex trafficking. ProPublica's Avi Asher-Schapiro tells us more.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	WBUR Podcasts, Boston.
0:06.2	We believe that there are certain military operations that do not comply with domestic or international law,
0:14.2	but we're not suggesting that military members should disobey any particular order.
0:21.4	When the commander-in-chief and military lawyers disagree
0:24.7	about whether something is legal,
0:27.6	who's a soldier supposed to listen to?
0:30.9	It's Tuesday, November 25th,
0:32.9	and this is here and now anytime from NPR and WBUR Boston.
0:37.2	I'm Chris Bentley.
0:47.4	The White House has a lot of power, but it's not absolute.
0:52.7	Today on the show, we've got three stories about the executive branch pushing the limits.
0:58.2	We'll look at the flimsy legal justification for American military strikes in the Caribbean.
1:04.0	And the unintended consequences of President Trump's pressure campaign against the leader of Venezuela.
1:10.1	He wants Maduro out, but he needs to really look very carefully at the reality that he would
1:15.7	confront if Maduro were to leave.
1:17.9	Also, we'll hear how a Trump administration official intervened on behalf of accused sex
1:23.0	trafficker Andrew Tate during a federal investigation.
1:26.4	It was quite unusual that Paul Ingracia, personally, that their former lawyer got involved in their
1:32.3	plight.
1:32.9	That story coming up in about 15 minutes.
1:35.5	But first, the Pentagon says it's investigating Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, after he
1:41.6	appeared in a video with other Democrats from military and intelligence
	...

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