Hey listeners I'm sharing something special today from the Say More podcast.

We're in a special series Boston Globe columnist Shirley Leong is opening up the conversation about stress and burnout to help

listeners feel less alone and inspired to get help.

She connects with experts like Krista Tippett and Emily Nagowski who use medical science,

social science, and philosophy to answer deep questions about how stress works on our bodies and minds so we can work better and live

better. In this episode, computer scientist and best-selling author, Kale Newport, says we've been thinking

about productivity all wrong. Shirley talks to Kale about the ways the modern office worker is primed for

professional burnout, how hybrid work makes it worse, and what we can do about it. He's not a Luddite by any stretch, but he says we should

quit social media and leave our phones behind whenever possible. Okay, here comes the preview. You can listen to Say More

wherever you get podcasts. Welcome to Say More from Boston Globe Opinion.

This is part two of our new series Say More on Beating Burnout.

I'm Shirley Leung.

On the last show we talked about the ways stress acts on the body and mind.

This week I want to take on the biggest source of stress in my life, work.

I actually love work, but many days I feel like a chicken with its head cut off.

It's like the sound of slack or email or text

will pop up at any second and derail me from whatever I was thinking about until I can't even

remember what I'm supposed to be doing. Today I'm so happy to talk to Cal Newport who is a writer and computer science professor at

Georgetown University. He's an expert on doing less and getting more done.

His new book is called Slow Productivity, the Lost Art of

accomplishment without burnout. Cal, welcome to say more. Thanks for having me on.

So I've been doing this series on burnout.

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