Let's say I'm a little four or five-year-old child. I'm playing, I'm happy, I have this amazing

life and my mother says, Byron Kathleen, you are unlovable and I don't love you. And what

I can see today is that is absolutely not a problem.

So if you've heard the name of today's guest Byron Katie, it's probably in conjunction

with something called the work when Katie, as she goes by, was sort of in the middle

years of her life with a family in the mid-80s. She was entering probably the close to 10

years of a deep, all-consuming depression. Until one day she was lying on the floor and

quite literally experienced a moment of awakening into a state of what some might even call

enlightenment. She lost her sense of the past, of the future, felt only the presence and

almost had to relearn what the world was and who she was in the world and was in that moment

also transmitted some deeper understanding of the difference between reality and illusion,

suffering and joy. And spent the next few years developing a process of inquiry, which

she calls the work, which is a very simple set of four questions that she has then taught

now to millions of people to help them question their own realities and discover what is true,

what is false in the name of removing suffering in all of our lives. I had the chance to sit down

with her and her husband, Stephen Mitchell, who is a deep scholar in his own right, especially

in Eastern traditions and philosophies. And they have a new book out now called A Mind At Home

with itself. It's an exploration of a very classic text called The Diamond Sutra, which is one

of the most profound and somewhat esoteric deep dives around what is real and the essence of who we are

to get their lens on this to just have a chance to really sit down with Katie, get her take on this

to have her share her personal story firsthand. And then also have Stephen's contribution and his

lens on this story and his experience of it as they've moved together in the later part of their

...