Hey everyone I'm Amy Scott, host of how we survive and today's episode of burning

questions explores a controversial idea the use of sabotage in the climate

movement. In this book how to blow up a pipeline Andrea's Malm argues that

peaceful protest isn't cutting it and climate activists need to step up their

tactics and damage or destroy the physical things that are hurting the climate, including taking the air out of SUV tires or even

blowing up oil and gas pipelines. It raises some pretty provocative questions and this

year a film came out inspired by the book. It's a

fictional story about eight people who banned together to blow up a pipeline in

Texas.

Trying to stop the pipeline from being built on my property.

Poisons the air, water.

We have to show how vulnerable the oil industry is by hitting something big.

Today we're going to hear from two of the filmmakers,

Director Daniel Goldhaber and a writer, producer and lead actor in the film, Ariella

Bereira, about how they made the movie and this question of

whether sabotage has a role in the climate movement. So our burning question today is,

should we just blow it all up?

And by blow it up, I mean, what role, if any, should violence have in climate activism?

I think the first thing that I would say in response to that question is is even just the way it's framed and the usage of the word violence I think is a really pertinent one because I think that there are so many ways that the language that we use in the way that we just discuss the basics of climate change has framed the debate in a way that I think is actually

unwinnable. You know, why is it that an oil refinery that pollutes the air and the water and blights the earth and

creates a system of energy production that is leading to the catastrophic warming of our planet is not seen as a violent piece of infrastructure,

but an act that might sabotage or, you know, shut down that violent piece of infrastructure is in fact seen as the

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