This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Bruske, Stacey Cole, and Todd Michaels.

All right, Bob Mata, defense attorney, and as you also may know, he's got the podcast

buried all about John Wayne Gasey, all about the cassette tapes that he received from

his father, who was one of Gacy's attorneys, and on those cassette tapes, the words of John.

Things people had never heard before, never will again. Things about the case that were never even part of the trial. There's so many

interesting nuggets in this podcast. If you're an in, I'm going to say a fan of Gacy, but if you're

interested in the case, it is certainly definitely worth checking out, especially if you just

got a chance to watch Devil in disguise

or have seen the doc or the series out on Peacock right now.

And incidentally, Bob is with us along with Stacey Cole and Todd Michaels.

Bob, welcome.

Thank you, Mike.

We've been talking about doing this for a while now, talking about the Gacy tapes.

And why not now more than ever with everybody buzzing about it? For those who

don't know, just kind of give us a little backstory on you getting a hold of these tapes from your

dad. How did this all go down? So my dad back in 79 and 80 was one of Gacy's two trial attorneys.

So Sam Emeranti, who had done other work that wasn't related to crimes for Gacy and his contracting business, put together little contracts for him.

You know, if there were little people in terms of small claim stuff that weren't paying him, he'd file suit for him.

So they had a relationship, a business relationship prior to the shit going down with Gacy.

So when they start tailing Gacy in 1978 in December, he ends up reaching out to Sam.

And he's like, hey, Sam, you know, these fucking cops, man, they're following me around.

They've been doing it for like a week.

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