My name is Stan. I'm at. Nice to meet you. So you took up photography where? I've always loved

photography but I turn it into earning a living at 60. I enrolled on a day course.

Well college. I loved going to college. It's good you can retry. I'm enrolled on the day course. But college?

I loved going to college.

It's good you can retrain and do something.

Yeah, yeah.

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This is about our lives. This is about American lives. Oh, Hello and welcome to the bunker I'm Ross Taylor. I've been thinking a lot about

trust recently because I'm writing a book about it.

The more I've studied it, the more I realize what a difficult thing it is to measure and to establish.

So I'm very pleased to have the chance to talk to the US commentator Arand Gidardas. He's a writer and a political analyst at MS NBC and the

author of a new book, The Persuaders, Winning Hearts and Minds in a Divided Age.

Welcome to the bunker, Arand. Thank you so much for having me.

Anand, you end your book with a quote, people change, but people often don't want to

change, do they? They're inclined to hold on to their instincts, hold on to their beliefs.

Who in American politics is good at encouraging people to change their minds?

...