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If Books Could Kill

Bullshit Jobs

If Books Could Kill

Michael Hobbes & Peter Shamshiri

Books, Politics, Society & Culture, News, Arts

4.610.3K Ratings

🗓️ 5 March 2026

⏱️ 60 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Peter and Michael discuss "Bullshit Jobs" by anarchist anthropologist David Graeber. The result: two professional podcasters debating which jobs are real and which jobs are fake. Where to find us: Our PatreonOur merch!Peter's newsletterPeter's other podcast, 5-4Mike's other podcast, Maintenance PhaseSources: On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs: A Work Rant37% of British workers think their jobs are meaninglessAverage Annual Hours Worked by Persons Engaged for United StatesThe times they ...

Transcript

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0:00.0

Let's go in. Let's go in.

0:01.6

Let's go in. And you have to cut all that because last time I told the same story twice. I noticed that. I didn't even think about it. I was just telling my stories to my friends. You know, like it looks like someone only had one funny anecdote last week. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. How many do you fucking have every week, all right? Fucking kings of comedy over here. They're like, oh, you're reusing your bits? Everyone else just tells one story to one person and is just done.

0:22.7

Nobody ever repeats anything that happened to them. You know how good my stories are by the third time I'm telling? I'm fucking crushing, dude. Okay, I actually, this one has like a really obvious, like, little zinger to it. Yeah. But I don't know how to word it, but I don't know how to word it. Michael. Peter.

0:38.1

What do you know about bullshit jobs?

0:40.4

All I know is that I'm excited to talk about this book from the vantage point of my own.

1:02.6

Bullshit jobs written by David Graber came out in 2018.

1:08.8

Graber is an anthropologist and he is a hardcore lefty.

1:14.7

He considers himself an anarchist. So finally, we're doing a book by someone who's not a reactionary centrist. Also, my understanding is his work is like good. It's a pretty

1:18.8

good book. It makes some important points. It prods at some good and correct ideas. I think like my

1:25.6

big picture criticisms of it are one, it's like really meandering

1:30.1

in the way that a lot of like lefty theory is. Yeah. It's hard for him to land at a point.

1:35.5

He says a lot of things where you're like, okay, I like this. And then he just sort of like meanders

1:40.7

on until you're like, all right, I no longer get it. This is like meeting anyone in Seattle, Washington.

1:45.7

You're just like at a cocktail party.

1:47.0

You're like, I think I agree.

1:48.5

I don't know what you're saying, though.

1:50.0

My other big picture criticism is that the book really screams for data, but he doesn't give it.

1:55.5

Oh, really?

1:56.1

That's surprising, actually.

1:57.0

Sometimes he's doing it very knowingly being like, look, I'm a, I'm a theory guy, you know?

2:02.6

Yeah.

2:02.8

So like if someone wants to look into this, they should. But there are other times where it's like, there is data here. And I feel like he could have looked for it. That is reactionary centrist coded. It is. I'm not going to look up the premise of my book and whether it's true. Also, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

...

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