From the historic campus of Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan, where the good, the true, and the beautiful are taught, nurtured, and honored, this is the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour, bringing the activity and education of the college to listeners across the country.

So there were terrible street conditions almost everywhere.

And I kind of expected that people were going to be really disgusted.

But the reaction I heard most was compassion.

I mean, deep compassion.

This is your host, Scott Bertram. Welcome to the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour, part of the Hillsdale

College Podcast Network. That was Mary Thoreau, chairman of the board of directors and CEO of the

Independent Institute. Her book is Beyond Homeless, Good Intentions, Bad Outcomes, Transformative

Solutions. We talk with Mary in depth than just a moment on today's program. Later on, Marty

Billman from Hillsdale's chemistry department is back to conclude her story on the history of

phlogiston theory and fire and how combustion works.

First, we're joined now by Mary Thoreau.

She's chairman and chief executive officer at the Independent Institute, more at

independent.org.

Mary, thanks so much for joining us.

Thank you so much for inviting me.

Talking about your recent book, which people can find, beyond homeless, good intentions, bad outcomes, transformative solutions.

Homelessness is more complex than people think, you argue, and you say there's not a single cause, of course, of homelessness.

Can you walk us through the range from systemic issues to personal

crisis? How do people find themselves in homelessness? Well, as I think we all agree, people are

individuals, and therefore they have very individualized paths into homelessness. Anything from, I mean,

there certainly are addiction issues, and there are mental health issues

...