Hi and welcome to the working songwriter, the show where today's best songwriters come to talk shop.

I'm your host, Joe Pug.

Each episode here, we host a distinguished guest, and we ask them to go deep on their

inspiration, on the process, on the general ups and downs of making a life in music.

So, whether you're a grizzled veteran, figuring out how you can play only six

shows per year, all within driving distance of your own house, or else a scrappy upstart, looking to book

back-to-back 12-week tours, this is your show, because ultimately it is what every songwriter seeks most,

an ironclad excuse to put off actually writing.

Hey, everybody, it's the last Friday of January 2022, and I thank you for joining us.

This week's show is brought to you by Ban Zougal.

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I'm old enough to remember when you had to pay somebody called a web developer to get a website made,

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and who was really into backpack rappers from Minneapolis,

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An old Tucker would charge you about a thousand bucks for a website that would be obsolete in six

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...