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If Roberts gets to uphold the rule of law and embarrass Trump a little bit in the process, that might just be a win-win for him.

Hi and Happy New Year and welcome back to Amicus.

Slate's podcast about the law and the courts and the Supreme Court and the rule of law and you know justice and impeachment or as I've come to think of all that stuff, Chief Justice John Roberts' Toiletry Kit.

I'm Diolithwick, I cover John Roberts, Toiletry Kit as my job for Slate and I'm actually not exaggerating at all when I tell you that nobody is as shocked as I that a growing attorney from Long Beach, Indiana is now somehow the most interesting and important constitutional player in America.

Check that, I think John Roberts is a little bit more surprised than I am to learn that this is the case so this week's show is going to focus on the Chief Justice as we try to make sense of an impeachment chess game that somehow about equal parts three-dimensional chess but also one part hungry, hungry hippo.

Before we get to institutional chess, hippos, I want to thank those of you who wrote in following our last show when we spoke to a bunch of lawyers who are volunteering their time and skills to support people applying for asylum at the Southern border.

Liz and Seattle wrote in to let us know about the organizations she's connected with to help put her attorney's license to use in service of people who are facing the daunting task of navigating the current unforgiving system.

So I wanted to share the name of one of the organizations that she mentioned with you that kids in need of defense or kind support kind dot org and they put the training and support of pro bono attorneys at the very center of their work Douglas and Illinois wrote into recommend immigrants rising Douglas rights they have written a careful legal guide for educational institutions to provide financial support for the many undocumented young people now in this country in particular they helped us judge the

state and generate fellowships for three students involved in summer science technology, engineering math and research program targeted at underrepresented high school students in our community in Champaign Urbana.

Thank you to both Douglas and Liz for just reminding us that every day people who listen to this show can do extraordinary work and if you're a lawyer who listens to this show pick up a nor its time.

One more thing, slate plus members, keep an eye on the amicus podcast feed. We're going to be sharing part of a conversation I had at the Aspen Institute with Neil Cadiol, former acting solicitor general of the US frequent guest on this podcast. His brand new book is called impeached the case against Donald Trump written with Sam Coppelman in bookstores now.

Okay, so to the chief justice and a man who is also the most interesting man in America, but who's been studying the chief justice and his jurisprudence and his doctrine almost as closely as anyone I know and that's happily for us. Slates own Mark Joseph Stern, Mark's book American Justice 2019 the Roberts Court arrives came up this past fall published by the University of Pennsylvania press and it is an absolute must read to help put what is going on right now with general

Roberts and the court what happened last term what's coming up next into perspective long before any of us knew that chief justice Roberts was going to become the most watched political actor in America. Mark was clocking the rise of the Roberts court. So Mark, welcome back. Happy New Year. It's so good to have you back. Thank you so much for having me back on happy New Year. It's going to be a terrible one everybody buckle in buckle in. It's going to suck. Let's let's just start with the brief biography. I know Joan.

Biscupic wrote sort of the definitive biography of John Roberts, but I also know you've thought very, very hard about how it is that this man who grows up a sort of a conservative middle of the road movement conservative feds up guy. Yes, but not a Clarence Thomas, not even a Samuel Alito.

Who is John Roberts what is it that we need to know about his backstory to understand what he is today. Yeah, well, in a lot of ways Roberts is sort of an aporacic in the Republican party right he was a very, very smart attorney who hailed from Indiana he has a kind of subdued and modest Midwestern charm.

He clerked for then Justice William Rankwist of very, very conservative justice on the Supreme Court and then went to the Justice Department under Ronald Reagan where he argued against expanding and strengthening the Voting Rights Act, then hopped over to corporate law practice for a number of years argued before the Supreme courts many times quite deathly.

George W. Bush put him on the DC circuit for a few years that was sort of like a triple a league waiting for him to be elevated to the Supreme Court and eventually when Justice William Rankwist died he was Chief Justice at that point and Bush said well guess what John Roberts you're going to be the new Chief Justice and so.

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