Mob mentality. It's a real thing. That is an actual real thing, the mob mentality. So what happens is you got a lot of youngsters here who are just struggling with whatever they're struggling with. And then they attach themselves to this trans space, which makes them feel needed and wanted. And then they, what do they do? They start getting into the energy

of it because trust me, just go there one day, stick yourself right in the middle of one of

those Facebook groups. You will feel the anger just, so they're all literally being plugged into

an anger space and they're all being plugged into this mob mentality. Everyone's a true scum,

everyone's a turf, Everyone's transphobic,

even if they're in the community, if they don't follow these guidelines. And to me, I'm like,

wake up, people. So I really force these kids to get out of those groups and to get out into the

world. Welcome to the unspeakable podcast. I'm your host, Megan Dau. My guest, Buck Angel, is an entrepreneur and a speaker and educator about transgender issues, particularly issues related to trans health care. Now in his late 50s, Buck transitioned from female to male in his late 20s and has more recently become a controversial figure in certain corners of the trans community.

He talked with me about why this is, what it's been like to spend decades on masculinizing hormone therapy,

and why he's worried about the number of clinicians now prescribing such therapy to young people after minimal

psychological counseling. A couple points for the record. At one point, Buck refers to the entrepreneur

Martine Rothblatt, who is the founder of a biotech company called United Therapeutics.

He mistakenly calls her Martine Rathbaum. It's Martin Rothblatt. It's also possible from Buck's phrasing that it might sound as if he's suggesting Rothblatt is among the billionaire class. For the record, United Therapeutics was reportedly worth $7.1 billion as of this past March. But Rothblatt herself, according to Forbes, is worth

$390 million, minor detail. And with that, here's my interview with Buck Angel.

Buck Angel, welcome to the podcast. Wow. Thank you. I'm really happy to be here, actually. Even though we've never met,

you sound like such a cool person. Well, likewise. I only have cool people on. Right on.

You guys without saying. So you have a background as an entertainer, and now you do a lot of work as an

activist and an educator. You counsel young people who are struggling

with gender identity, but I think it's fair to say, I guess it's obvious in many corners,

that you've run afoul of mainstream, or at least the most vocal community of trans activists,

if you can call it the community. We're going to talk about

who you are, what your background is, all of that. But first, I want to know how you characterize

...