My guest is Javier Espinoza.

Avi Espinoza covers competition, digital policy at the Financial Times, Brussels Bureau.

Welcome to the podcast, Savi. Thank you very much, Paul. I cannot say how honored I am to be your guest.

Well, you're part of a long line of FT journalists I've interviewed over the years. So welcome to that very elite club, as you say.

Right, we're going to talk about how the EU, how Brussels, as they say,

regulates the tech industry, starting with the European Commission,

and then how the lobbies gear into action.

We'll start maybe on the legislative slide, maybe on the peer regulation as it goes through all the different procedures, but I'm sure we'll touch on also the competition aspects when

the EU competition authorities start focusing on maybe a company and its alleged anti-competitive

behavior in some occasions.

So let's start, first of all, it's not so much making a value judgment because maybe not your role,

nor my role, on the validity or the value of, if you like, of the EU's strategy or digital,

but just about how they go about producing proposals, first of all, let's start at the beginning.

What are your views about how, especially the current commission, which is now ending its

five-year tenure, has gone about producing proposals, the current commission, which is now ending its five-year tenure,

has gone about producing proposals, consulting, getting internal buy-in, and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, that's very interesting.

And I was very fortunate to arrive in Brussels right at the beginning of these two very important pieces of legislations,

which are the Digital Markets Act and the Digital Services Act.

So if we step back even before the process starts, what is the ambition?

Then the ambition is very simple.

So we all use the Internet, and they want to make it safer and fairer. Safer for

...