At the end of this chaotic, but also reflective week on Capitol Hill with the House Speaker's

battle and the January 6th anniversary, we turn to the analysis of Brooks and Cape

Heart.

That's New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Cape Heart, associate editor

for The Washington Post.

Good to see you, both.

Great to see you, Abna.

So, it took four days over a dozen rounds of votes for Kevin McCarthy to just break

the log jam to try to work towards getting the votes to become speaker.

He hasn't done it yet as we sit here and speak right now, but David, let's talk about

the holdouts.

The ones who have consistently, the small number of members who consistently oppose him

and still do, are they just anti McCarthy?

Are they never going to back him?

I don't think they're anti McCarthy.

I think there are two schools.

They're Chip Roy, who is so early in the program with Congressman of the Goatee.

He does want to change the rules and there's a case we made that Congress needs to reform.

Most of them are not like that.

And in my view, it's wrong to call them very conservative.

There are a lot of Republicans who are very conservative.

These are nihilists.

...