Welcome to In Conversation, the regular podcast of InCompass. Go to InCompass-Hevon

for free access to all our podcast to date. This is Paul Adamson and I'm in conversation with Dennis

McShane. Dennis McShane is a former Europe minister of the United Kingdom.

Dennis, your latest book, Brexitternity, has just come out. And I'd like to ask you on the back of that,

all the kind of noise and the heat and the and the saber rattling, which is happening certainly in London and to a lesser extent in Brussels.

Is that not going to be the new reality in terms of UK relations or is this a kind

temporary blip? I think it's all going to take a lot longer than people imagine. Boris Johnson,

rightly from his point of view, says leaving the treaty has got Brexit done. Frankly, that is

for the birds.

I mean, Theresa May could have left the treaty in 2017 if she'd wanted to.

What matters is what is the new final or semi-final relationship?

Can firms export freely to Europe? Can people retire and live in Europe?

And 101 regulations that would have to be discussed and debated.

I spent 15 years working in Geneva. I still regularly see Swiss politicians.

And they like to point out that they voted not to join the European Economic Area in 1992,

started negotiating a new relationship with the EU in 1993, and blow me down, 27 years later, they still haven't finished.

Well, as you know, the negotiating mandate has just been approved by the

U-27 in Brussels and next Monday second of March the formal negotiations start. Do you predict

a rocky ride or will things relatively quickly smooth down when kind of common sense breaks out

on both sides in effect? It depends very much on Boris Johnson.

I can't predict how he's going to behave.

And it's all entirely in his gift.

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