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So Jackie, are you a collaborator, a mutineer or a traitor?

I like to think of myself rather than why I, as a sort of buccaneer figure.

Obviously, what you're talking about is the Telegraph, those conservative MPs who voted against the government's plan to put a date for Brexit in the bill this week.

And the interesting thing about it was it

pretty much backfired on the telegraph, didn't it? Because people said, just a minute, this looks

like almost bullying of these people. And I might not agree with them, but actually that's not

the way we want to carry out the debate. What did you think about it? Well, I'm not sympathetic to

that view at all, actually. I disagree with all of the people who were featured. But to portray them with mugshots, which is effectively what they did, it just encourages all of the trolls, the bullies on social media. And of course, one or two of the female MPs featured immediately got a huge amount of abuse.

And if you do a front page like that, you surely must know what the consequences are.

And it's not the way to conduct a public debate at the moment, I wouldn't have thought.

And particularly given some of the experience that we've had relatively recently,

of the sort of things that people are willing to do to MPs when they take against them. I mean, it's pretty unsavory in terms of that

Brexit debate. And the other thing, and you were a chief whip, I don't know whether this

happened in your day, but that was clearly leaked by the whips, that all of those names were leaked

to the telegraph to expose who they were.

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