Hi everyone and welcome to this latest instalment of the Brexit and Beyond podcast from UK and a changing

Europe and I am absolutely delighted today to be joined by not one, but two fantastic guests. First,

we have over from Northern Ireland, Katie Hayward, Professor of Political Sociology at Queen's

University Belfast. Hi, Katie. Hi, Anand. And as if that weren't enough, to her right is Jill Rutter,

our very own from the UK and a changing Europe and I suppose the Institute for Government as well.

Hi, Jill.

Hi, Anand.

And because we're cool, this is incredibly timely because we're sitting here talking to each other.

The day after List Trust issued what the newspapers have are some incendiary statements about the future of the protocol

and the fact that the UK government

simply does not accept the offer that the EU has made to date. So the threats are ranging.

And Katie and Jill are here to explain everything that's going on. So first and foremost,

let me start with you, Katie. What did you make of what the Foreign Secretary said last night?

So it's clearly a shift. so we had been getting some positive vibes from the Foreign Secretary about the need for ongoing engagement and talks, and the talks have been suspended since the

joint committee at the end of February, of which they said we need to continue talking about this

after the election. Coming into the talks that said we need to continue talking about this after the

election. Coming into the talks that she's going to have tomorrow, she said essentially, let's

start from the beginning. What you've done so far is not good enough, so they have said that

the October non-papers are called that the EU put forward as suggestions for solutions, really doesn't cut it,

in fact it would make things a lot worse. Essentially now it looks as though they're lining themselves

up to act unilaterally with respect to the protocol to enable the British government to do

what the DEP would like it to do, which has effectively removed the Irish sea border.

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