Hi, everyone. Welcome to the latest episode of our Brexit and Beyond podcast. And my guest this week is none other than the Ian Dunt. Columnist with the eye, an author of How to Be a Liberal.

And I'm rather hoping he's going to tell us how to be a liberal over the course of this podcast.

Ian, welcome.

Thank you very much, Annand. Or shall I call you Yoda? Can I call you Yoda from now?

On LBC this morning, they called me the boss of UK and a changing Europe.

So now when you retire.

I know.

I mean, let's be honest, you put that down as a contractual obligation whenever you appear on a radio station.

Anyway, listen, thank you for doing this.

There's an awful lot to talk about, not least because actually it's not just that you wrote a book.

You've actually written two books because the paperback and the hardback are different, which I found deeply

annoying, but we'll get onto that later on. You didn't read it twice, did you? Well, I mean,

there's two different endings. I mean, it's a bit like, you know, I am legend. You can do the

sort of alternative ending if you're feeling like in a different mood. Anyway, you, one of the things you say is liberalism is the single most radical political program in the

history of humankind. Can you explain why? The core of it is in the idea of the individual,

right? Which most of the time we kind of think of as this quite right-wing idea. I think we associate it

with that trism. It's none of that. It doesn't's none of that. If you believe in the freedom of the individual,

and you believe that politics is about individual thought and individual criticism,

you kind of eradicate the ability of power to homogenize you, to press down on you, to demand that

you have an answer. We tend to think

things like communism is very radical, but in actual fact, whenever you actually see communism

imposed, it's always about turning people into the same thing. It's always about a power from

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