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Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each weekday we bring you a meditation

inspired by the ancient Stoics, a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life.

And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating and powerful.

With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives.

But first, we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors.

Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast.

You may have heard my two interviews with the great Admiral Stavrethus, also former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO.

I liked both of his books, but in his new book, To Risk It All, he actually profiles today's guest, whose name may sound vaguely familiar, the events that we'll talk about in today's episode sound almost like they were eternity ago, but it's weird to think it was almost exactly three years ago as the world was melting down.

Captain Brett Krozer captured the attention of the nation and the world.

When the ship he was captain in the USS Theodore Roosevelt and aircraft carrier with over 5,000 sailors was besieged by one of the earliest outbreaks of the pandemic.

There were no tests, no masks, no ability to socially distance.

And at the time, the authorities and the military, every capacity of society was overwhelmed.

And Captain Krozer had to make a career altering a life altering decision about whose interest he was going to put first his career, bureaucracy or the safety of the men and women who served under him.

And we're going to talk about this courageous decision, we're going to talk about the pressure that he faced, how leaders navigate decisions like that, what it was like to be relieved of command, but then also to be cheered by his own sailors as he walked off of that ship supposedly in humiliation.

This is one leadership moment in Captain Krozer's life, but certainly not the only one he spent 30 years in the Navy, there's a helicopter pilot, then a fighter pilot landing on aircraft carriers, he trained in the Navy's nuclear power school, which put him on track to command an aircraft carrier, and then he commanded the USS Theodore Roosevelt, the most prestigious carrier in the US fleet, the most powerful Navy in the world.

So lots that he can teach us, I was very much looking forward to this conversation. And he has this exciting new book called Surf When You Can, Lessons in Life, Loyalty in Leadership from a Maverick Navy Captain.

It's a fantastic book and follow him on Twitter at Brett E. Krozer or at Surf When You Can on Instagram surf.when.u.can or at B. Krozer, it's publisher is A-Tria Books. I think you're really going to like this one. Enjoy.

I thought we would start sort of at the end here. We don't have to get into the specifics of it, but I a general question that's fascinating to me about your story. And actually I gave a talk at the Naval Academy a few months ago, and I talked about this idea, because I think it's relevant not just to the shipment, but I think to all people, which is that, you know, let's say one of the most important things that I've ever seen is the ship.

Let's say one is on some sort of tract for leadership, right? You're working your way up through a company. You want to be the CEO someday. In your case, you go to the Naval Academy, you work your way up through the ranks. The whole system is about getting you to buy into a way of thinking, a way of being essentially not rocking the boat, right?

The Navy, they cut your hair the same way, they make you sleep in the same quarters that they make everyone the same. That's how you create culture and commitment and even kind of replaceability, all of these things, right?

And then the system life, being a good person, demands at times that we buck all this. So we expect people to make these, like we expect a politician to be a party politician all the way down the line. And then in the moment of crisis, throw all of that away, even though we have effectively trained them to do the exact opposite of that thing their entire life.

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