Brené Brown on the State of Leadership in America Today

On with Kara Swisher

New York Magazine

Society & Culture

4.2 • 3.2K Ratings

🗓️ 9 October 2025

⏱️ 70 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Acclaimed researcher, podcaster and best-selling author Brené Brown joins Kara to unpack her vision of leadership, as outlined in her latest book, "Strong Ground." They discuss the dangers of "power over" leadership, why courage and vulnerability are essential traits for real leadership, and how turbulent times can pave the way for bad leadership. They also explore the impact of AI on human connection and the challenges faced by leaders in navigating a world of uncertainty and paradox. Brown shares her research on the self-conscious effects of shame and humiliation, and both she and Kara reflect on the qualities of effective and ethical leadership. Want to see Kara and Scott Galloway live during the Pivot Tour November 8th-14th? Get tickets and details at PivotTour.com. Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm fixing to change your life.
0:03.0	Okay.
0:03.9	Your wife and your kids are going to be like, new Kara.
0:07.3	I doubt it.
0:07.9	Hashtag Renee Brown saved us.
0:09.7	Literally, same person since 1962.
0:13.1	But go ahead.
0:13.9	Try. Hi, everyone from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network.
0:29.1	This is on with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher.
0:32.1	My guest today is Brne Brown, a professor at the University of Houston and the University of Texas,
0:37.4	the author of six number one New York Times bestsellers, and the host of the podcast, Unlocking Us and Dare to Lead.
0:44.0	Brunay has a new book called Strong Ground that explores what courageous and collaborative leadership looks like during these turbulent times.
0:51.2	Her work is grounded in rigorous academic research and work she's done consulting Fortune 500
0:55.8	CEOs and leaders around the world. And I'm excited to charge her because I just love Bray Brown.
1:00.3	We met many years ago. She was a fan of Pivot and she contacted me and we've done several interviews.
1:05.8	She's interviewed me and I just think she's such a fresh thinker about a lot of things.
1:09.9	We disagree on a lot of things,
1:11.2	including being vulnerable. She thinks I am. I disagree with her vehemently. But before we get into
1:17.3	our interview, on with Kara Swisher is nominated for a Signal Award in the news and politics category.
1:23.7	Today is the last date of vote. So go to vote. Dot signal award.com and help us win.
1:30.7	I'm also doing a live pivot tour with my co-host Scott Galloway.
1:34.2	The live tour runs November 8th through the 14th, and it hits Toronto, Boston, New York, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, and L.A.
	...

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