Brené Brown on courageous leadership (from ReThinking with Adam Grant)

The Next Big Idea

Next Big Idea Club

Education, Social Sciences, Science, Society & Culture

4.4 • 1.3K Ratings

🗓️ 20 November 2025

⏱️ 45 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Brené Brown is a researcher, storyteller, and author who hosts the podcast Dare to Lead and has given some of the most popular TED Talks of all time. In this episode, recorded live at an Authors@Wharton event, Brené and our curator Adam Grant talk about her new book, Strong Ground. They discuss how to identify your core values, what courageous leadership looks like, and whether vulnerability has become more popular. They also address the problems with “executive presence,” compare notes on how to have hard conversations and set boundaries, debate the merits of the “tush push,” and reflect on what Brené learned from working with FBI hostage negotiators. This conversation first appeared on ReThinking with Adam Grant. It’s one of our favorite podcasts. Follow it now wherever you listen. --- 🎁 Join the Next Big Idea Club today and we'll send you a signed copy of Walter Isaacson's new book, The Greatest Sentence Ever Written. You'll also get ad-free versions of this show, invitations to member-only Q&As, and the six best books of the year delivered to your door. Sign up at nextbigideaclub.com and use code PODCAST for 20% off. 🎥 Watch video episodes on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@NextBigIdeaClub

Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm Rufus Griscom and this is the next big idea.
0:05.0	Today, Bray Brown on courageous leadership, next big idea club members to discuss Brunay's new book, Strong Ground.
0:36.9	We'll publish that conversation Tuesday.
0:39.4	Until then, we have something special for you. In preparation for my chat with
0:44.1	Bray, I listened to your interview with my friend and next big idea club curator, Adam Grant,
0:49.5	on his podcast, Rethinking. Honestly, it's the perfect warm-up.
0:55.2	The two of them chat about leadership, vulnerability, and what Brunay learned
0:58.8	working with FBI hostage negotiators.
1:01.7	It was smart, funny, and it'll get you ready for Tuesday's deep dive.
1:06.6	If you enjoyed their conversation, you can find lots more like it on Adam's podcast.
1:11.0	Follow Rethinking with Adam Grant on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
1:18.3	Hey, everyone, it's Adam Grant.
1:20.4	Welcome back to Rethinking, my podcast with Ted on the Science of What Makes Us Tick.
1:24.8	I'm an organizational psychologist, and I'm taking you inside the minds
1:28.1	of fascinating people to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.
1:36.3	Bray Brown is a researcher and storyteller who's changed the way I think about vulnerability,
1:41.1	shame, empathy, and leadership. She hosts the podcast Dare to Lead, where I've
1:45.7	loved being a recurring guest, and she's given some of the most popular TED Talks of all time,
1:50.3	and written six number one New York Times best-selling books. I hosted Brene for a live conversation
1:55.6	in the authors at Wharton series to talk about her brand new book, Strong Ground.
1:59.5	Brene Brown, so excited to have you at Wharton.
2:01.6	Thank you.
	...

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