You're listening to the Hard Men Podcast, I am your host Eric Khan. Today we're

joined by Pastor Brian Sovey. He's the pastor of Refuge Church in Ogden, Utah.

And he is the husband of one wife, the father. Brian, you have four children, is that right?

Four kids, yeah. Four kids. I feel like being in Utah we have to clarify

that you have only one wife. Just one that's right just the one. Brian you got

a couple of places online where people can follow along and read

your stuff including your tweets. How's the best way to get a hold of you and

read what you've been writing? Well the two places that I spend the most time, I'm on Twitter quite a bit.

At Brian, BR I A N underscore, S A U V E.

If I write something on my blog, it's Brian Sobay.com, I'll link in there.

So that's a good place to keep up with me.

Awesome.

Yeah, and I just encourage you guys, especially on Twitter Brian is a great follow lots of

insight so Brian we'll get started I want to talk about the Rona the church response

has been very interesting I think, but I like to get your take.

It seems to me there's been a lot of silence from the church. I mean we're what two months in I think now people are starting to respond a little

bit but were you surprised at all by how quiet the church was?

You know it's kind of like any time you get it does it almost doesn't matter what the

judgment or trial or difficulty is it's just going to reveal things that were that were already there under the surface.

Well, they were it's not like the coronavirus, you know, invented a lot of issues for the church.

It really revealed and tempted the character and nature of the work that was already being done.

So for those like pastors and churches that had already had a robust cultural engagement,

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