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bulwark. I am fortunate enough to be joined by Jonathan Cohn, who's author of our

breakdown newsletter. And a true treat, Dan Diamond of the Washington Post.

He came out of leave for this specific, no, he came out. He's been doing great work on the beat at the post.

We're here to talk about what I think may be one of the more potentially consequential evenings

in our nation's literal health and certainly at the CDC where we've had what appears to be a mass resignation

and a potentially big firing involving RFK Jr., who heads HHS, and the

director of the CDC, who may or may not currently be the director of the CDC.

We just don't know, Suzanne Monars.

Dan, I'm going to start with you because you broke this story.

Why don't you give us kind of the lay of the land and what happened today so that people who are tuning in might understand?

Well, Sam, what happened today was pretty messy, and I think even as we're talking now,

some of the things are still in dispute. But Susan Monterez, who had been confirmed as the CDC's director only a month ago and was

thought to be kind of a part in the choice of word, but a bulwark against RFK juniors.

We'll take it.

We'll take it.

Against his efforts to potentially overall vaccine policy.

She was seen as someone who was a more moderate choice than her first pick, an anti-vaccine activist named

Dave Weldon. She'd only been there a few weeks, and words started trickling out today

that she was out, and it was unclear exactly what had happened. I talked to Trump officials

who said they had heard that she'd been insubordinate. My colleagues, Lena Sun, Lauren Weber,

had also gotten word that she was being removed. But even as of mid-afternoon, it wasn't clear

...