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So, Jack, thanks for doing this.

Actually, Jack, I actually, until we, until just then, I forgot how far we go back.

But, you know, you got me working for Rusty Rubin's newsletter many, many moons ago, didn't you?

20, more than 20 years ago.

I don't even remember that, Chris, that you did something for Rusty Rubens and he'd become the editor of boxing news.

I want to congratulate you.

You've been killing it at the BWA

Bernie Awards riding contest. What is this? Is this two first place finishes in a row, two years in a row

with two out of three or whatever? Yeah. And do you know what? I'm very pleased, but Lee Grove said,

I can't remember what he said, but I've got something this year where I've got a first second third and honorable mention so I've got a clean sweep which is

great oh wow you got the gram slam the grand yes is called in baseball in the United States

the home run with the basis loaded that's what he said yeah that's what he said yeah he gave me

the baseball analogy which isn't which isn't necessarily understood over here. But hey, we digress. But thank you very much for that, Jack. But also, hey, look, congratulations to you on your book with Michael Spinks. And I suppose, you know, in some ways, it's not too dissimilar from mine with Matthew Saab Mohammed in the sense that it's come many years

after the event and with a guy from that same sort of similar crop of light heavyweights.

But how did it come about? Tell me how it came about with you and Michael,

or get Michael to put pen to paper. Yeah, it came about by chance. The one thing I hadn't done in all the years was actually write a book.

I had written a ton of feature stories, columns, spike reports.

And like I said in the book, I compare it to a ball player who's had a pretty good career

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