And we should note we asked officials from Border Patrol, ICE, and the White House to join us for an interview, but they declined our requests.

Meanwhile, the crackdown in Minnesota and the deadly shootings of two U.S. citizens are raising questions about the tactics used by federal immigration agents.

To discuss that, I'm joined by former Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Gil Kierlikowsky.

He also served as the chief of local police departments in multiple cities.

Gil, welcome back to the News Hour. Thanks for being with us.

Sure. So you've seen a number of videos circulating online, some even frame-by-frame

analyses by different news outlets. I'm just curious, what stands out to you from what you've

seen? Well, the fact that they took him to the ground and he is resisting, but you would think that

with the number of agents that they had, they would be able to get his hands behind his back and

get him secured and get him handcuffed.

And it reminded you of kind of a football scrum where they were all at different angles.

So I didn't see them doing a particularly good job of securing him and getting him in custody.

Based on what you know about what happened before that interaction,

what should have agents done in that case in those circumstances?

Well, I think what they don't do and what they should be doing

is that when they're confronted with somebody who is attempting to interfere

or attempting to obstruct, they should tell that person,

we're arresting you. This use of chemical munitions, just bringing out pepper spray, et cetera,

just makes little sense. Police officers deal with these things all the time, and they make

a physical arrest. And that actually then deters some other people from getting involved or obstructing.

But remember, this is a group of people, the Border Patrol in particular, who are completely untrained and unskilled for policing and urban environment.

I want to ask you a little bit more about that training.

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