Hey, this is Ari Melbert from MSNBC. Thanks for listening to The Beat with Ari Melbert podcast.

We want to share some extra programming today, so buckle up and stay tuned for a special edition from MSNBC, brought to you by the Beat with Ari Melburgh podcast.

President Trump and his allies have spent years campaigning against diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, DEI, and companies and organizations.

Now, these attacks come on three main levels. First, opposing the actual programs that recruit for

diversity, like affirmative action or projects to counter unequal playing fields in business, government,

college, or life. And there's a valid debate over whether

and how to address America's documented discrimination. It actually draws on decades of debates

about rules, laws, and policies. The second line of attack is DEI complaints that operate

as a kind of symbolic or darker attack on American diversity itself,

on the people that make our country diverse.

In that line of attack, which I bet you've heard about and seen,

grievances against minorities or women or their possibly rising power in our society

are used to single out criticize or malign those people and then say it's

just a policy debate. Now on the right, most prominent leaders do not proclaim that, quote,

there should be no women bosses or no women presidents. Instead, you hear these DEI attacks that

traffic sometimes and grievances against the perceived rise of women and

minorities. One Trump appointee even proclaimed, quote, competent white men must be in charge,

a racist claim that was actually so extreme, most Trump aides, to be clear, don't put it like that.

And then third, there are attacks that offer a caricature or a lie about

DEI. They basically make something up instead of facing the facts and the nuance. Now, it's familiar

from the playbook you might remember against so-called woke politics. There are examples of things that are

associated with liberalism that could be unpopular or extreme

...