Hello,

Hello, Prestige Head and Welcome to American Prestige.

Hello, Prestige Heads, and welcome to American Prestige. I'm Danny Bessner, here

as always with my friend and comrade Derek Davison. And we're very excited to welcome back to the podcast

today. Stephen Wirtime and Jennifer Kavanaugh. Stephen is a senior fellow in the American

Statecraft program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. And Stephen is a senior fellow in the American Statecraft program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

And Jennifer is a senior fellow and director of military analysis at defense priorities.

And we've invited them to talk about their recent article in foreign affairs, the Taiwan fixation.

American strategy shouldn't hinge on an unwinnable war.

So first of all, thank you so much for

joining us. Hey, Travis. Very glad to be here for the millionth time.

For the million times, Stephen, it's very comfortable for you. You're, I guess,

American foreign policy desk. So anyway, I've lost count of the number of appearances,

but not of the amount of monetary gain.

That's a solid zero.

How many books have you sold, though?

You've probably sold so many books from the show.

Probably.

Hundreds of thousands.

I think it would round to zero as well.

We round down here.

So why don't we just start with the sort of larger question, which is how is the debate

...