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It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

BONUS SNEAK PEEK: Colombia Through Football ft. Professor Matthew Brown

It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

The Overlap

History, Rob Draper, Jonathan Wilson, Football, It What Was What It Was, The Overlap, Football History, Premier League, Four Four Two, When Saturday Comes, English Football, The Blizzard, Stick To Football, Sports, Soccer

4.9 • 667 Ratings

🗓️ 13 March 2026

⏱️ 18 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this sneak peek to a bonus episode of It Was What It Was on Patreon, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Professor Matthew Brown (University of Bristol) to deepen the series on Andrés Escobar by tracing how Colombian history, political violence and the drug economy intersect with football. Brown rejects Gabriel García Márquez’s claim that three events defined 20th-century Colombia, while explaining why the 5–0 win over Argentina in 1993 became a tipping point for football as a national identity marker. The discussion covers football’s emergence alongside other sporting cultures, the role of sport after the 1948 Bogotazo and during La Violencia, and Colombia’s later shift into guerrilla conflict and cocaine trafficking. They explore cartel money’s social and sporting influence, the effects of Pablo Escobar’s death and subsequent violence, the symbolic damage of Colombia’s 1994 World Cup collapse, Copa América 2001, and how the 2014 team helped build trust during negotiations leading to the 2016 peace deal, while noting ongoing violence tied to the illegal drug trade.


You can listen to the full episode on Patreon


On Tuesday, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson return to round off the Colombia series and bring that story to a close.


On Wednesday, on Patreon only, the co-hosts continue the World Cup countdown series with an episode on the 1962 World Cup in Chile, looking back at the tournament and some of its key moments.


Then on Friday, also on Patreon only, we look back at when Northern Ireland faced Italy in the 1958 World Cup qualifiers. With Northern Ireland preparing for their 2026 World Cup play-off semi-final against Italy, Rob and Jonathan revisit the meeting where Northern Ireland qualified for their first World Cup and discuss the background to Ireland’s football split in the 1950s.


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Transcript

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0:00.0

Hi and welcome to It Was What It Was, I'm Rob Traper and this is just an introduction to a little taste of one of our special editions we now have on our Patreon page.

0:10.4

Because I really think this one is worth a list and so we hope we're going to sort of tease you in and convince you to join up to our Patreon is with Professor Matthew Brown from Bristol University, who is not only an

0:24.6

expert in sport, but also an expert on Colombia. And as you know, we're in the middle of our

0:28.1

series on the tragedy of Andres Escobar and how drugs kind of infiltrated Colombian football

0:34.6

and ended in tragedy at the World Cup 1994, which in itself has been a

0:40.6

fascinating topic, but really to dig deep into this, to get under the skin of it. I mean, Matthew is

0:47.0

an absolute expert, so much an expert that he actually worked on the Peace Commission in

0:51.7

Colombia in 2016. He really understands that country and he loves

0:56.6

sports. He teaches a module at Bristol University about how sport intersects with history. So he's

1:04.7

absolutely the perfect guest to get on. I don't think we could have got anyone better from the UK

1:09.5

at least to talk about this.

1:11.9

So please give us a little bit of a try.

1:14.6

See if you like this,

1:15.4

because this is the kind of thing we could do on Patreon is to really dig down into

1:19.0

the history and get a little bit beyond the football as well.

1:22.3

It's not all we do on Patreon,

1:23.7

although there's many other features.

1:26.1

We do a Q&A every month. There's lots of bonus

1:28.9

editions like this. We're running our World Cup Wednesdays. You'll get access to all of those,

1:33.4

which is really a preview of Jonathan's book on the World Cup, where we go through every single

1:37.4

World Cup. And we're looking back at old shoot magazines in some edition. So there's all sorts of

1:43.1

things to look out from there, as well as our chat and our

...

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