Hey, this is Annie and your listening is stuff I'm never told to you.

Today we have a bonus interview for you continuing our conversation around women in tabletop

games and the world of tabletop game development. We recorded it a little while ago so this is like

a collision of past Annie and present Annie. I hope it doesn't mess with the space time continuum.

But let's jump right in to the past and to the interview. So we're here today to talk more about

women in tabletop gaming and specifically developers in tabletop gaming and we're here with

not one but two heathers. Hello heathers. Can you introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit

about what you what you do? Sure, I'm a heteroglial CEO of 9 level games which sounds

work like it is. But yeah, I'm a game designer and also do a lot of the figures and of the work for

our publishing company. And I am Heather Wilson. I am COO of 9 level games and I do some design work

and I also do a lot of editing and I get to write our contracts which some people find very

boring but I find very exciting. Oh, I am so into contracts. I actually will I will dive into

why it is that at universe lore land you can go to like spider man and the Hulk even though

Disney owns them but you can't in California. It's all about contracts. So I'm like 100% on board

with you with how interesting that is. And you both have been involved in developing some games,

some pretty rad games, some games that I'm a fan of. Would you mind talking about some of the ones

that some of the games that you have developed? Sure, obviously I think that the one that I was

probably also picked out is our collaboration which was shorting of tax. Yeah. It came out in

early 2016 after a successful Kickstarter in late 2015. But it's been a lot of years now. But

it was really funny because up until that point I think I don't know about this other but for me

I didn't think I would make a game. I did a lot of like, now's a beat off me. Let me tell you

what I think is good. Let me do this. I just did. But didn't think I would make a game. And then we

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