Escalation is presented by Delete Me, the industry leader in personal data removal.

Delete Me is trusted by 20% of the Fortune 500 and by federal, state, and county courts across the United States.

For more information on Delete Me and its services for individuals and businesses, go to

join deleteme.com slash escalation.

Hey, Escalation listeners. It's niceasty here, co-host of the show.

We've got a bonus episode for you, an extended cut of our interview with Russia expert and diplomat Fiona Hill.

I talked to Fiona about the end of the Cold War and the rise of Putin.

Here it is.

So I wanted to ask first about the 90s and about the fall of the Soviet Union.

And I mean, I am Ukrainian. So I have a little bit of a bias here going into these questions. So Ukraine perceives Russia,

at least right now, through the lens of kind of historical continuity. So for us, the fall of the Soviet Union was, of course, a positive thing. But still, Russia as a state, hasn't fundamentally

changed vis-a-vis us and vis-vis the relationship with

Ukraine. How did the US perceive Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union? So did the US think

that Russia has somehow really changed and become like a new actor, a new state after 91?

Well, look, if you think about it in that context and the way that you've framed the question, it's actually a bit of a complicated answer to it.

Because if we look back to the first Bush-Bush-Sinier presidency, I mean, he's infamous for the so-called Chicken Kiev speech, where he actually tries to exhort the Soviet Union to stay together.

Because, you know, the United States at that point is actually quite paranoid about the potential collapse of the Soviet Union, what this might mean.

It's not just about the command and control of nuclear weapons,

which becomes one of the most important issues in the immediate aftermath of the dissolution.

I want to say, the dissolution rather collapsed the Soviet Union, because we all know

that it was actually a political decision to political parties. It's not some accident, you know,

that kind of happens here. And in fact, you know, it's the Ukrainian leader,

...