So welcome to another bonus episode, and this is one that we weren't sure we'd ever be able to put together because we had tried to do it before.

It didn't work out for various reasons, but now I think people feel more comfortable.

So Dr. Romney, you're here. Mark Gerardo, you're here. Thanks for coming in.

And let's start by talking about something that bothered you Mark after you heard the first episode.

I was more than shaken. I was stunned. I was immobile. I was sitting on my couch just staring at a wall after.

Why did it hit you like that? I don't know. I wish I knew. I wish I had prepared myself better for it. Well, actually, I do know. I do know.

Hearing, I guess, Jenner's voice in that context. And I think you know, just from our, from our first meetings, I hadn't listened to most of that.

The audio. I had. Right. I remember you told me that it was just so hard to share with my therapist. We went through a couple clips. And I just said, that's enough. I don't need to see the rest of it. So handing it over to you was, you know, it was a debated whether that was the right thing to do. Obviously.

And, you know, I trusted it was in good hands. And it would be used appropriately. So did you not feel it was used appropriately? I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that I was not prepared for it. And naively.

So to watch it before, you know, one morning before I started work. And then I was done for the day. I just went down to my neighbor. I sat under couch and just stared her wall for a while.

You know, that's, that's the, that's the kind of experience I had every time I would come into contact with something of hers, a photo or the letter for sure. And I would read it in dribs and drafts just it was too much to do at one time, but it would take me back.

I would lose a whole day because I would have to recover. So it's not inconsistent with that experience. And yeah, discovering all of these things.

Let's talk about the narcissism label or indicator for lack of a better word that bothered you.

Among other things, I'm going to get I, I would listen to the conductor and then people would call me afterwards like she was really rough on you.

And I would say, yeah, where is she wrong? I mean, that's everything she's saying is I'm like, okay, that hurts. That's things a lot.

But she's not wrong. Now, specifically the label of narcissism. And I know that's kind of your area of expertise. It's an ugly word. I think it's used overused a lot and thrown around by a lot of people for someone mostly male, I believe that's kind of how it's used.

And so, certainly I'm not a bit immune to that phrase being slung during the last three years and most and I, you know, I was convinced that I was I was like, oh, I am.

And so I would have to ask people, am I do I come up as a narcissist? What is a narcissist? And so I had to research on it and ask people about it and Sheila, who has become a trusted friend.

And she said, no way. Are you a narcissist? I know you well enough that that's not a label I would use for you.

So that said, Dr. Romney, I, if you could unpack that diagnosis and help me understand what that means.

So let's talk about this word because you're right. It's an ugly word and it's overused word. And I was saying earlier that to Barbara is that it's almost a word like love, right?

If the three of us talked about what we think love means, we'd probably give somewhat different definitions. Narcissism is quite different. It's very clear that it speaks to inconsistent empathy entitlement arrogance, grandiosity, sometimes envy, an insecurity and a sense of inadequacy that a person's not comfortable when that comes to the surface.

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